February 26, 2008

Gandhi

We've received a lot of comments about Gandhi, who appears in our current issue, on our Who Are We? page. We've moved all these comments over here to open up the discussion.

- Philip Ryan, Web Editor

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Saint's picture

Dear ALL Buddhists and the Opponents, and Everyone else:
Its been a long time since I posted any major discussion or rebuttal topics, however, I visited every now and then and made some minor remarks.
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This is the SECOND Part of "gandhi" on the cover of Tricycle Magazine Debates:
THE PART II IS DEDICATED TO "Tapar".
I have know personal connection or previous knowledge about this person named Tapar, except right here on the "Tricycle" comments page. However, if this person is the same as the much talked about hindu historian, I have heard a few things such as as some kind of a popular historian or whatever.

If he or she is an historian of national standard of India, it is pretty strange how is that a great historian do not know Buddhism was killed by Hindus mainly. Only the left over Buddhism was attacked by invading muslim rulers and so on. Ironically, his/her comments made here did not reflect a scientific temperament or quality of a historian, and poorly informed.

What is amazing about this person is to bad mouth Dr.Ambedkar or Buddha, the greatest two brains ever to born and walk on this planet. The other reason I am baffled by is he or she is questioned or asked for reference to the fact "Buddhism was constantly attacked and sabotaged by hindus", and here is an astounding writing from a Buddhist (I am inclined to think, he might be a Monk, but I have no personal knowledge or connections with this author or publisher).
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Enjoy, and come out with renewed energy, post your comments:
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Why Buddhism prospered in Asia but died in India
Sun, 2012-06-10 00:42 — editor
http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2012/06/09/why-buddhism-prospered-asia-...
By Shenali Waduge

Undoubtedly, the philosophy of Buddhism is one of the greatest gifts to mankind. Its peaceful concepts have distanced its followers from wars, crusades and is a binding formula for the entire South/South Eastern/Central/East Asian region of the world of which most nations are Buddhist countries whilst others including India are not.

The Buddha was not interested in numbers nor was he interested in the lay deity having a distinct identity. There were no social codes, modes of worship…in other words adherence to the Buddhist faith was not obligatory unlike other religions of the world. Anyone, irrespective of caste, creed was welcome to take refuge in the teachings of Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. There was no exclusive allegiance nor was lay deity required to perform regular religious service – essentially everything was voluntary. Only those that understood the philosophy behind Buddhism would be able to cherish its value.

With time the Brahminical Social Order began to secure greater advantage over Buddhism and with royal patronage shifting from Buddhism to Hinduism, the fate of Buddhism was sealed and the great philosophy all but disappeared from India with little help of revival even from State Governments.

Why India chose to forget Buddhism

A puzzle to most is how Buddhism disappeared in the land of its birth. Was it because people became absorbed in Hindu practices, rituals, and mythology and caste supremacy or, was it the Moghul invasions, or could it have been the failure of Bhikkus to sustain the great philosophy itself?

Needless to say for whatever reasons, Buddhism did decline and disappeared in India.

Full article: http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2012/06/09/why-buddhism-prospered-asia-...

Saint's picture

I found some typos and errors in my last message, since there is no way I can go back and edit, I will fix and make a subsequent post, when I return to this page next.

Thanks,
Saint

My Sincere thanks to Tricycle magazine and Blog Moderator for allowing this Thread to continue....

Saint's picture

I do not agree or accept many of the concepts that Dalit voice has posted here. Therefore, readers and people who post here has to make your own judgement of such individual posts that contradicts Buddha's teachings and practices.

Most if not all said by Dalit Voice is not correct:
Ref: 152. Realbuddha - March 20, 2008
From the article from Dalit Voice - March 16 2008
http://www.dalitvoice.org

Almost 90% of those posts on this group are genuine, factual and appreciated, as I was the initiator of this thread, every now and then I will browse thro and I feel obligated to point out outrageous and voilent posters, I will point out the typical hindus who argue on this message board are the same one's or people with such mentality and attitude's who are causing those dalit atrocities in India. There are few of them, will even give their life to stick to the Manusmiriti, Gita, and Veda, despite the truths and facts that they all advocate and spread the most dangerous of all human discrimination.

Here are those hindu posts:
148. Anji Cherian - March 19, 2008
151. Anirudha - March 20, 2008
158. Thipperudraswamy - March 24, 2008
159. rana pratap - March 24, 2008
These Anji, Anirudha, Thipperudraswamy and Rana are the typical of hindus who's mindset causing so much chaos in India. They have the audacity to post derogatory and irrational messages about Buddha, Buddhism, Dalits, Dr.Ambedkar and so on.....I will come back and focus on each one of these folks, and those I missed earlier, let us dissect out who is real and who lives in illusion!.

Ppost Needs my response:
140. Abhinavagupta - March 17, 2008
Dear Abhinavagupta,
Let me thank you profusely for your post, and for being so ratonal and respectful, unlike many others who talk about hindu religion on this group actually damage themselves with their own language and attitudes, whereas, you'rs deserve respect.
However, there are several mythical scriptures and names of past religious people you have mentioned needs to be scrutinized.

I will try to spend sometime and answer your questions, thanks for your civil behavior on this message group.

Saint

Usdating's picture

Thanx for the valuable information. This was just the thing I was looking for, I really like how it includes the actual curved shape flight paths. keep posting. Will be visiting back soon.

Raj's picture

to # 148. Anji Cherian - March 19, 2008

"Buddha was as much a culprit as anyone else. The centuries following Buddha’s emergence turned the geographical land mass of India into a passive weak state. Invasions upon invasion followed. If Hinduism is poison, Buddhism is a main ingredient in this poison. "

Dear Anji,

Please read the following to have real facts about why India was invaded again and again. It was not due to Lord Buddha's teachings; it was due to the Hindu social system.

"Ninety per cent of the Hindus— Brahmins, Vaishyas and Shudras—could not bear arms under the Hindu social system. How can a country be defended if its army cannot be increased in the hour of its peril? It is not Buddha who, as is often alleged, weakened Hindu Society by his gospel of non-violence. It is the Brahminic theory of Chaturvarna that has been responsible not only for the defeat, but for the decay, of Hindu Society.
Some of you will take offence at what I have said about the demoralizing effect of the Hindu socio-religious ideal on Hindu Society. But what is the truth? Can the charge be denied? Is there any society in the world which has unapproachable,, unshadowables, and unseeables? is there any society which has got a population of Criminal Tribes? Is there a society in which there exist today primitive people, who live in jungles, who do not know even to clothe themselves? How many do they count in numbers? Is it a matter of hundreds, is it a matter of thousands? I wish they numbered a paltry few. The tragedy is that they have to be counted in millions, millions of Untouchables, millions of Criminal Tribes, millions of Primitive Tribes!! One wonders whether the Hindu civilization is civilization, or infamy." Ranade, Gandhi and Jinnah by Dr. Ambedkar

rana pratap's picture

To Thiperudraswamy,

You should understand that you are talking to some violent sectarian people with vested intrests to demonize hinduism. There is no use talking to these people as they have a very clear agenda and set mind set about Hindusim. They have also made a good career out of this by running NGOs and so called Human Rights organizations with good funding from vested intrests from outside India. There careers will be jeopardized if they realize that Hindus are humans like everyone else.

Thipperudraswamy's picture

"This is one of the 30000 (reported) incidences of caste atrocities sanctioned by the HIndu religion. One can read the classic religious law of Hindu, Manusmruti, which is religiously followed with examples like mentioned above(most of the time without consciousness ), but the given caste identity of higher ups gives them authority to oppress others below them. "

This is a strange accusation because Hinduism as such is a conglomerate of many belief systems and there is no central church or authority dictating anyone to commit any atrocities. That said I am not sure whether Manusmrithi is a law book followed by hindus. Amicro minority Brahmins used to read this sanskrit text. In modern India manusmrithi is read more by people who are against Hinduism than Hindus.
These unfortunateincidents of atrocities in India are sectarian violencewhich is pervalent in most fuedal soceities in asialike pakisthan, bangladesh, burma, cambodia, china and many many others. It is not specific to India or Hinduism.

Thipperudraswamy's picture

"One cant explain why one Hindu is Hindu, except the uniform answer
of caste identity. eg. i belong to this caste so i am hindu, but there wont be any other uniform answer."

There are many Hindus who do not identify with Caste System. They are still Hindus. I belong to a community who follow the teachings of the great teacher and social reformer Basavanna. Our community is a very big community (15 Million) in a southern Indian state. Basavanna was a social reformer who never believed in caste. There are many other sects and communities like the Radhasoami'sin the North who never beleive in discrimination. There are hardly any modern Hindu movements or Gurus which condone caste system or oppression. Hinduism has existed and can exist without the caste system. Manu dharma shastra is something which is reviled by every Hindu organization.

Even the much hated Hindu organization RSS is open to all people of all castes and never ever condoned the caste system. There are some people here who have vested intrest to malign Hinduism and appropriate on it all the evils of Indian soceity. This can be done for any religion. You do not apply the kind of atrocities happening in Buddhist, islamic and christian countries on these religions. In fact these countries have far higher atrocities than India.

Radha Jagtap's picture

"Ravi Ravi Shankar, I dont know why he should support Hindu religious sentiments, if he is useing buddhist values, then he should not merely use it behind the curtain of hinduism or any other religion. But openly become buddhist and practice it. Leave apart this, I do not know if he has intervened in any atrocity cases, or any initiative to annihilate the caste. Whosoever Mahatma or others will sanctify the Hindu religious with its in seperable caste hierarchy, will need to question their own freedom of mind if it is slaved. "

Sri Sri ravishankar teaches Human Values not Hindu or Buddhist or Christian values. Sri Sri has basically taken the best out of all the religious and secular traditions as far as the value systems are concerned. There is no need for Sri Sri Ravishankar to become Buddhist or vedantin or christian or any thing else. He describes himself with a simple man with no labels. As he says, “Religion is the banana skin and spirituality is the banana. The misery in the world is because we throw away the banana and are holding on to the skin.” Sri Sri believes that all religions and traditions have a common value system, and these shared values have to reach every corner of the world in order to make it a better place for all.

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar founded the International Association for Human Values (IAHV) in 1997, which has undertaken development projects in thousands of villages, bringing self-reliance to millions of people from India to Afghanistan to Bosnia, Iraq to New York.

Milinda's picture

Radha and Aniruddha

Please read my previous posts, where I had mentioned about Buddha who rationally questioned caste inequalities and he never claimed himself Mahatma. But he was great human being whose philosophy has great role in eradication of caste, likewise Ashoka understood it, and in 1956 Dr. Ambedkar re-embraced to Buddhism along with millions of followers.

I am pointing out all people who claimed or claiming themselves as great Mahatmas who raise dust but has not been successful in eradicating caste.

If one read the classic "Annihilation of caste" published at Columbia University, Dr. Ambedkar has appealed the people who want to eradicate this caste and untouchability, one will have to eradicates its sanctity given by Hindu religion, and the this religions has basic foundation of caste. I have not seen any HIndu without caste, as it has remained basic foundation of religion.
One cant explain why one Hindu is Hindu, except the uniform answer
of caste identity. eg. i belong to this caste so i am hindu, but there wont be any other uniform answer.
It follows sanctity to the Hindu caste hierarchy and untouchability practices.

Last week my friend called me up and told in Aurangabad town one "untouchable" caste boys eyes were taken out because he tried to marry higher caste girl(with her will). All caste hindus got together and beaten this boy and blinded him.

This is one of the 30000 (reported) incidences of caste atrocities sanctioned by the HIndu religion. One can read the classic religious law of Hindu, Manusmruti, which is religiously followed with examples like mentioned above(most of the time without consciousness ), but the given caste identity of higher ups gives them authority to oppress others below them.

I dont blame these people personally, but the system of hierarchy. I will praise who quetioned it rationally but not people like gandhi who make this hierarchy more strong again sanctifying this religious caste identities.

Ravi Ravi Shankar, I dont know why he should support Hindu religious sentiments, if he is useing buddhist values, then he should not merely use it behind the curtain of hinduism or any other religion. But openly become buddhist and practice it. Leave apart this, I do not know if he has intervened in any atrocity cases, or any initiative to annihilate the caste. Whosoever Mahatma or others will sanctify the Hindu religious with its in seperable caste hierarchy, will need to question their own freedom of mind if it is slaved.

Best wishes !!!

Milinda

Anonymous's picture

Looks like the last message was either deleted by the blog moderator or it was never published due to some error??.

Saint

GB Singh's picture

Dear All,

I am the author of Gandhi: Behind the Mask of Divinity. I am glad that so many of you have aired your views about Gandhi. Please keep up the great work you guys are doing. I suugest you might visit www.gandhism.net. Also feel free to reach me if you must ar GB7495@hotmail.com

Realbuddha's picture

From the article from Dalit Voice - March 16 2008
http://www.dalitvoice.org
Buddhism hijacked by Brahminism

FIVE STATEMENTS
This is a response to the criticism on the following five statements of Dalit Voice:

1. Who says Budhism stands for peace, nonviolence, vegetarianism, meditation? Nonsense. Gautam Budha did not say all this nor Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar.

2. What then are the facts? Budha preached and trained his followers on two things: (a) fighting practices and (b) peaceful practices. The first to be used against the cruel Brahminical enemies of the Dhamma and the second to strengthen innocent people. In other words, Budha asked his followers to be fully armed to fight and finish Brahminical enemies of Budhism.

(3) The Budha also identified only the Aryan Brahminical people and declared a war against them.

(4) Good men, defenders of the correct teaching need not observe the five precept or practice the rule of proper behaviour. Rather they should carry knives and swords, bows and arrows, halberds and lances.

(5) When I recall the past, I remember that I was the king of a great state in this continent of Jambudvipa, my name was Sen’yo and I loved and venerated the great vehicle scriptures.

Budha’s fundamental doctrines are anitya, anatma, anishwarvad, pratyutyasamutpada, law of kamma (effects of human deeds on society social order, good or bad), equality and justice in society. Dukha (sufferings) and its removal (nirvan) come under pratyutyasamutpad.

The object of the Dhamma is how to remove (annihilate) the dukha — sufferings and those practices that work to remove the Dukha is called Dhamma. Budha had coded Astang marg, panchasila (dassila for bhikhus) and Das paramitas as the principles (practices) to remove the dhukha. All these practices or principles depend upon the existing social order to be on the foundation of justice and equality but the rich always discarded them.

NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE
(1) Take the first point. Peace, meditation, nonviolence and vegetarianism are not the natural nor absolute doctrines/principles of Budha’s Dhamma. Will peace, meditation, nonviolence and vegetarianism help establish justice and equality in today’s social order? Peace is possible only within equal classes/communities. Lambs and lions can never live together peacefully. Can the oppressed and the oppressors live peacefully together without violence between them? Budha said there would not be peace without removal of private property (Ambedkar - The Buddha & His Dhamma, p.424, People’s Education Society, 3rd edition).

Babasaheb also said: I am for peace which is based on justice —not the peace of the graveyard. There cannot be any peace without justice (Oct.15, 1956).

All creatures may live peacefully without attack. But in practical life one creature is the food for the other. This is the law of nature. Without violence or killing how they will live/survive?

Budha banned only unnecessary killing of creatures like in yagna and unnecessary wars.

JAINISM USED TO KILL BUDHISM
When Budha permitted eating meat as food its meaning is he permitted killing/violence also.

Budha said:

Those who attack these living beings either because of greed or of hostility and always bent upon evil, they go to darkness and fall into hell; this is amagandha, and not the eating of flesh. It is evil action which constitute amaganda and not the eating of fish or flesh. (B&HD p.295).

Budha did eat choice dishes made with flesh of birds (p.293). He stood for ahimsa. He denounced himsa. But he did not deny that himsa may be the last resort to save good beings destroyed by evil (p. 369). Every individual may decide by this pradnya whether the need to kill is there (p.250).

Ahimsa Permo Dharma is a Jain doctrine used by the Brahmanvadis to defeat Budhism. We found in Vinaypitak that Budha had made rule for bhikhus not to eat flesh of some animals like elephant, nag, lion etc. But he never banned flesh of all kinds animals.

MEDITATION REJECTED
In Astangmarg, Budha preached samma-samadhi which means right thinking.

Whenever Budha or Babasaheb used the word meditation, concentration, contemplation its meaning is only right thinking and not yoga meditation or vipassana. Budha never taught any technique of yoga meditation or vipassana.

All yoga or vipassana meditations are Brahminical/vedic techniques now propagated in the name of Budha to weaken the Ambedkarite/Budhist movement of revolution.

Don’t confuse people in the name of meditation or vipassana. Yoga meditation or vipassana is only for relaxation therapy and kasin mediation is hypnotic which leads to hallucinatory effects whereas samma-samadhi is right thinking which creates reasoned mind and good deeds.

2. Take the second point. Why peaceful and fighting practices are necessary? Why and how Budha and Babasaheb used them? Budha told Anand about Pratyutya-samutpada that:

“Deep is this doctrine of events arising from causes. It is through not understanding this doctrine, through not penetrating it, that this generation has become a tangled skein, a matted ball of thread, unable to overpass the way of woe. I have said that, craving is the cause of grasping. Where there is no craving of any sort or kind whatever by anyone for anything, would there be any arising or grasping?” “There would be no lord”.

“Craving gives rise to pursuit of gain. Pursuit of gain gives rise to desire and passion. Desire and passion give rise to tenacity. Tenacity gives rise to possession. Possession gives rise to avarice and more possession. Possession lead to keeping watch and ward over possession. Many a bad wicked state of things arise from keeping watch and ward over possession, such as blow and wounds, strife, quarrelling, slander and lies. This is chain of causation, Anand”.

BUDHA ADVOCATED CLASS STRUGGLE
Above is the correct analysis of class struggle.

If there was no craving would there arise pursuit of gain? If there was no pursuit gain, would there arise passion? If there was no passion, would there arise tenacity? If there would be no tenacity, would there be love for private possession? If there would be no possession, would there arise avarice for more possession? “There would be no lord”. “If there would not be love of private possession, would there not be peace”? “There would be lord”. (B&HD, p.424 and p.168).

This is the fundamental doctrine of class struggle (causes of dukha) under pratyutya-samutpad but both Budha and Babasaheb failed badly to establish their doctrine — justice and equality in the society but Marx-Lenin and Mao have succeeded because they used force.

That is why Rahul Sankrutyayan while propagating Budhism criticised Budha for disobeying and discarding his own doctrine to enforce it on society. The titan like Babasaheb Ambedkar could not get incorporated his state socialism in the constitution of India even when he was the architect of the constitution.

Budha succeeded in establishing communism only within the (bhikhu) Sangha. What is the use of this communism within the sangha when there was already a rule of possessing only eight articles by bhikhus?

Babasaheb was never against communism. He said that Soviet dictatorship would be good for all backward countries. The Russian revolution brought equality.

In India, Budha to Babasaheb used only peaceful practices and achieved some success but they miserably failed to establish justice and equality.

Our Mulnivasi Bahujan movement is also using peaceful practices to “educate, agitate and organise” the Bahujans but the enemy (BSO) is so powerful that we failed.

Democracy failed in India to establish justice, equality, liberty and fraternity for want of fighting practices by Bahujans.

VIOLENCE NEEDED TO ENFORCE JUSTICE
That is why both Budha and Babasaheb recommended fighting practices to the oppressed against their oppressors (BSO). Babasaheb said:

“Violence cannot altogether be dispensed with... Why cannot a property-owner be killed if his ownership leads to misery for the rest of the humanity? There is no reason to make an exception in favour of property owner. The Budha was also against violence. But he was also in favour of justice and where justice is required he permitted the use of force (W&S, Vol.3 p.450).

Budha sanctioned warfare for a righteous cause. He said he who deserved punishment must be punished. Evil should not be allowed to overpower good (B&HD p.368-369). Where virtue is in danger do not avoid fighting, do not be mealy-mouthed (B&HD p.327).

How then to fight without having weapons? Every Budhist/Ambedkarite/oppressed should note that Manu/BSO had completely disarmed the shudras to enforce varna/caste system on them.

(3) What is wrong in point No. 3 ? Are not the Brahminical people the enemy No.1 of Mulnivasi Bahujan Samaj? Who brought the caste system to India? Who are its defenders? Who are against social and economic justice, equality and casteless society? It is the Aryan Brahminical people.

Budha allowed Brahmins also to work for the welfare of the society. But the Brahmins conspired and ruined Budhism.

WHERE CHRISTIANS FAILED
That is why Babasaheb said in his memorandum given to the Budhist Sasana Council of Burma in 1954 that:

The Sasana Council must not make the mistakes which the Christian missionaries in India made. The Christian missionaries began by attempting to convert the Brahmins. Their strategy was that if the Brahmins could be converted first, the conversion of the rest of the Hindus could not be difficult.

For they argued that if the Brahmins could be converted first they could go to the non-Brahmins and say, “When the Brahmins have accepted Christianity why do not you, they are the heads of your religion”. This strategy of the Missionaries proved fatal to Christians.... I feel that I must also set out what precautions must be taken in launching the movement for the revival of Budhism in India, if Budhism is not to disappear again....

The danger to Budhism from Islam no longer exists but the danger from Brahminism exists. It will be its toughest opponent.

EXCLUDE BRAHMINS
A Brahmin will remain a Brahmin no matter what colour he assumes or what party he joins. That is because Brahmins want to maintain the system of graded social inequality.

Budhist strikes at the very root of their prestige and power. That is why the Brahmins hate it.

It is quite possible that if the Brahmins are allowed to lead the movement of revival of Budhism they may use their power to sabotage it or misdirect it. The precaution to exclude them from position of power at least in the early stages of our movement is, therefore, very necessary (W&SVol.17, part-3, p.507-511).

The Aryan Brahminical people are the natural enemy of Mulnivasi Bahujans, according to Budha’s law of kamma. That means those who are the defenders of casteism, injustice, inequality, discrimination, oppression and refuse the human rights or opportunities to the weakers are the enemies of the oppressed people.

(4) For the bhikhus, observance of the panchasilas is compulsory. Their observance by the upasakas is voluntary. That means the bhikhus are forbidden from using arms/weapons even when they are beaten or killed by the enemies like killing by Pushyamitra Sung, Mihirkul, Shashank etc.

How such a rule can help defend the survival of Budhism? Never. How Budha could make this rule which could not defend Budhism? How the mealy-mouthed bhikhus can defend the dhamma? What is the role of bhikhus to establish these high value-virtues? Vinaypitak proves that Budha changed the rules frequently. Budha permitted change of rule for right cause when you are in danger or if it is necessary.

BUDHA WANTED WAR AGAINST BRAHMINISM
Budha said that we could wage war for lofty virtue, for high endeavour, for sublime wisdom. Where virtue is in danger do not avoid fighting, do not be mealy-mouthed (B&HD p.327). A bhikhu who is indifferent to the owes of society, however perfect in self-culture, is not at all a bhikhu. He may be something else but he is not a bhikhu. A bhikhu leaves his home so that he may have the freedom and the opportunity to serve those who are attached to their homes but whose life is full of sorrow, misery and unhappiness and who cannot help themselves (B&HD p.319).

Babasaheb also gave the same message as point no.4 explains. Babasaheb said:

Violence cannot be altogether dispensed with... If a murderer can be killed in war because he belongs to a hostile nation, why cannot a property owner be killed if his ownership leads to misery for the rest of humanity? There is no reason to make an exception in favour of property owner... The Budha was against violence. But he was also in favour of justice and where justice was required he permitted the use of force (W&S, Vol.3, p.450).

WEAPONS NEEDED TO FIGHT OPPRESSOR
How a good man (King Pasenadi) can defeat a wicked man (King Ajatsatru) in war/struggle without possessing superior arms and weapons to fight? Budha indirectly confessed for this by saying that the slavery gets a slayer in his turn, the conqueror gets one who conquers him, a man who spoils is spoiled in his turn (B&HD p.300-301).

Without possessing arms or weapon how it is possible to use force against enemies. Then what is wrong in point-4?

MEDITATION KILLED BUDHISM
(5) The editor of SOP by using Babasaheb’s words from B&HD criticised that — these lines unfold that it is based on the Jataka stories which are not the words of Budha. It may be wrong because the name of king Sen’yo for which the SOP editor criticised as false story, may be the name of Seniya Bimbisar, King of Magadha, which is true and to whom Budha permitted punishment for criminals (oppressors) and wage war for righteous cause (B&HD p.366-368).

Supposing the criticism is correct as per Jatak stories, but what Babasaheb saying in that chapter (B&HD part-4/4 p.56-57) about Bodhisatva’s 10 births/life is also taken from jataka stories which is wholly wrong, false and unscientific.

WHERE BUDHA FAILED
Budhism in India declined due to such meditational practices where bhikhus were engaged in meditation neglecting the real problems (sufferings) of the society.

Ideology alone is not enough to win without right strategies and tactics. Budha used various strategies and tactics to propagate his Dhamma. Budha converted women of 122 hunters when their husbands were not at home. Budha converted the 500 robbers.

Budha advised people to acquire wealth legitimately and justly, in righteous way and expend it for welfare of self, family and his workers and labourers (B&HD p.333 & 423). Which rich person listened to Budha’s advice? Bahunjans are suffering from centuries because of such exploiters or BSO. How to overthrow this capitalism and Brahminism?

Babasheb fought for separate electorate but failed. He demanded separate settlement but failed. As the chief architect of constitution, he failed to incorporate state socialism in the constitution. Finally, he denounced Hinduism and embraced Budhism. Here also his own people betrayed him and went into the camp of his enemies like Osho Rajnish, Goenka, TBM.

Babasaheb said on Oct.15, 1956 at Nagpur:

With the education, intelligence, knowledge and experience that I have, it is not difficult for me to oppose or fight against any evil. But there is a mountain, a colossal mountain of caste hierarchy; Vaishyas, Brahmins, Kshatriyas sitting on our heads. The question before us is, how to topple it down and blast it. It is for this reason that I wanted to acquaint you fully with the religion of Budha.

We want Budhism for justice and equality to secure our due rights, share and equity in the resources and property of the country which assures the well-being and development of our people and future generations and not the false satisfaction in the slavery or destitution. Are the tall-talkers and preachers of Budhism striving to achieve Budha’s object?

CASTE IDENTITY
The Mulnivasi Bahujanvadi Movement using “caste identity” thesis can alone help polarise and strengthen the oppressed communities against the BSO. No other movement will become successful in India where caste is the basic building block of fraternity (love) and unity.

Budha and Babasaheb lived and died for establishing justice and equality. Don’t kill them in idol worship and prayers or in meditation and false satisfaction or in sant and panth. Don’t force Budhist Ambedkarite movement to commit suicide.

We all have one common enemy and a common cause. Why our hands do not raise jointly against this common enemy? Why our people are beaten up by their own people? Because our people are made idiots who love their enemies and help enemies but not their co-brothers or sufferers. How to finish such internal contradictions within us?

We must love all our greatmen (not only Budha) who fight for the cause of the poor and oppressed and removal of casteism. Babasaheb struggled to make us lions — not sheep.

After finishing Budha’s Dhamma, driving it out of India and then co-opting Budha as the 9th avatar of Vishnu, India’s principal enemy has almost swallowed Dr. Babasaheb’s Budhism. Millions of rupees are being spent to see that Brahminical Budhists infiltrate Ambedkarite Budhism. Vegetarianism, meditation, non-violence, bhajans, idol-worship — all enemies of Budhism — are sold to our innocent Ambedkarites so that their anger against the Brahminical oppressors will not make them fight against injustice, inhumanity and naked exploitation of Untouchables.

Vegetarianism: Even as our Brahminical rulers are using all sorts of violence against the native Bahujans, they have already groomed thousands of vegetarian Budhists to fight, character assassinate and destroy genuine revolutionary Ambedkarites.
Budhism, so much so, has become a big business.
Dr. Ambedkar too faced similar threats from Dalits only acting on behalf of the enemy. Within an year of embracing Budhism, he was killed by the very forces, according to his followers.

Anirudha's picture

I think one of the basic tenets of these people like milinda here is to always blame it on others. Now he is blaming those saints and mahatmas who tried to remove evil practices like untouchability. My way or the high way. Okay now please extend your logic to Buddha, Mahavira as well. They were also well meaning mahatmas.

"The mote in thine own eye thou seest not....." - Jesus

Saint's picture

The basic tenet of Milinda and similar others are to educate, train and create awareness among callous minded, incapacitated hindus and casteists who cannot reason that all men are born equal, and live equal, must be respected with dignity, that is Buddha nature.

A criminal or criminal group that involved in 1000s years of sabotagery, discrimination and killing of innocent people in the name of religion and caste must be identified and must be told to the world.

No body, let me tell you no body but Buddha and Dalits Saints worked to remove caste system, there is not a single saint from hindu groups have the credentials or history of working from within hindu order or from outside hindu order to eliminate this deadly caste system, it was Buddha, and hundreds or 1000s of dalit humanitarians.............it is so unfortunate that the victims has to address such a humongous issue as caste system, while the perpetrators as usual have no issue to continue to have this system that is crippling India.

Radha Jagtap's picture

Milinda,
Sri Sri Ravishankar is not a casteist. I think you are a victim of preconceived judgements without knowing anything about Sri Sri Ravishankar or his movement. Sri Sri stands for equality, justice and freedom both in percept and practice. The art of living foundation has touched and transformed millions of people cutting across all stratas of soceity, religions, castes, creeds.

Sri Sri Ravishankar has been instrumental in spreading the values that Buddha stood for - peace, truth, non violence. Please do not make baseless accusations on a great human being like Sri Sri Ravishankar.

Milinda's picture

All the castiest Mahatmas like Hindu Gandhi, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, or Asaram Bapu and others though their main purpose is not to abolish caste and untouchability but they do raise some dust on this issue.
It would be important to understand the meaning of following word by Dr. Ambedkar

"There have been many Mahatmas in India whose sole object was to remove Untouchability and to elevate and absorb the Depressed Classes; but every one of them has failed in his mission.

Mahatmas have come and Mahatmas have gone. But the Untouchables have remained as Untouchables.

Reformers who in moments of crisis prefer to sacrifice their principles rather than hurt the feelings of their kindred, can be of no use to the Depressed Classes."

Anji Cherian's picture

It is the incessesant teachings of Meditation, Karma and re-birth by Buddhism which has resulted in the fatalism by Birth and passiveness of India. I wonder why these religions need to be considered at all. Buddha was as much a culprit as anyone else. The centuries following Buddha's emergence turned the geographical land mass of India into a passive weak state. Invasions upon invasion followed. If Hinduism is poison, Buddhism is a main ingredient in this poison. Buddhism from its foundation is an elite religion. The pali suttas for example provides abundant instances and anecdotes depicting city life, highly developed trade and and luxiorious habits of living. It is highly questionable whether this elite philosophy of Buddhism can do much to alliveate the suffering of the oppressed.

Radha Jagtap's picture

The international association of human values and the art of living foundation have adopted villages in India and provide /providing empowerment and training to the underpriveliged. If you want to know more about the core values taught by Sri Sri Ravishankar you can visit the www.artofliving.org. YOu can also contact any of the art of living centres around 144 countries to know the kind of work they this is being done.

Sri Sri Ravishankar's movement is driven by the motto 'Vasudaiva Kutumbakam', the 'whole earth is one's family' . In his vision, mission and practice there is no place for any discrimination based on caste, creed, color or race. This knowledge is being taken across through many villages in India and also in strife torn places across the world. The Art of Living Foundation is one of unique organzation whose following cuts through all religions, cultures and backgrounds, a very, very difficult thing to do in today's world.

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's soldiers of peace have adopted 25,300 Indian villages in 25 states, trained thousands of village youth in youth leadership training programme and conducted over 75,000 villages courses benefiting more than 2.3 million people. There is no place for the caste differences in Sri Sri's movement and initiatives.

His Prison SMART programme (Prison Stress Management and Rehabilitation Training), has helped prisoners throughout the world in rehabilitation and in reducing violence and drug dependency. It also teaches the inmates skills that enable them to accept responsibility for their past actions and handle future conflict and stressful situations successfully.

His post-traumatic stress alleviation courses have helped to bring peace to victims of war in Kosovo (80 per cent of Kosovo's population suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder, according to the Harvard Medical Group), in Israel, the Balkans, Sudan, Afghanistan, the United States, Iraq and Pakistan.

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's teachers and volunteers are from all religions - Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Parsis, Sikhs etc.

"We can all work toward a dual goal. One is to protect our environment, our planet Earth. The second thing is to protect human values -- compassion, friendliness, cooperation, and a sense of belonging to each other. This will protect our minds, save our hearts -- the soul of the planet. These human values need to be nurtured so we can have a stress-free, violence-free society. It is time to honour the ethical values from religions and discard the unscrupulous practices. Instead, people have discarded ethics and allowed the unscrupulous practices to continue." - Sri Sri Ravishankar

Sri Sri is indeed a great social reformer very rarely seen in our long History.

Nagarjua's picture

Regarding 143.
Thanks for the post.
I hope you have understood the question and context. Does not seem so from the reply though.
"Can we see what actions all the Guru’s , Sri Sris and Mahatma’s take?"
Pl. explain what is the accusation.
Pl. explain if the question means "they just talk and do nothing."
It's good to see some of the good things done.
However what about basic thing? Does this humanitarian have time, energy, courage to work on the 'Slavery of Hinduism'?
I hope he understands the intensity of the issue thru his spiritualism, meditation.
I guess you have already answered the question.. NGO's are there to take up the issue.

144 is not worth answering.
Everyone one can see if it is 'Buddhist Fanatism' or 'Caste Hindu fanatism'.
There is not even a small mention about the blind victims and several Buddhist running away from rural areas.
These atrocities news happen on a day today basis for several thousand years on Buddhist, untouchables. Can anyone say these are not real?
Only now due to advent of technology, internet and courageous people working towards Buddha's teaching of equality, liberty, truth, justice and peace these are gruesome, shameful acts are brought to the world.
They are giving their lives for it.

Chermila's picture

Hi I happen to read this blog. Some people here have said ambedkar is modern buddha. My question to people - did ambedkar got nirvana like Buddha. Was ambedkar enlightened and got enlightenment experience.

Anirudha's picture

Hi Radha,

Your words would not convince the fundamentalist and fanatic Buddhists here. They have concluded that all Hindus except some minority who think like them are malicious and evil people. So whatever work you do or whatever social welfare activities that people like Sri Sri Ravishankar does are meaningless to these people. Their agenda is not social welfare but political vendetta and capture of power. It is indeed ironical that people like Saint and Nagarjuna hide their hatred and violence under the garb of Buddhism or neo-Buddhism. Any one doing positive work in soceity is hated by these people. They don't even spare even the likes of Dalai lama or Thich Nath Han. They exhibit high level of intolerance in their views and bracket a huge population of 0.8 billion Hindus as evil. And we are told by these people that we need to learn to see truth and reality from them.

Radha Jagtap's picture

To Nagarjuna,

It is really unfortunate to know about the displacement of Dalit familes who are living in such fear in Maharashtra. I hope the NGOs working in these areas take up the cases of these people to provide them justice and their freedom.

On another note, you have questioned what Sri Sri's have done as they just talk and do nothing. The Sri Sri you are probably referring to is Sri Sri Ravishankar. I am part of the art of living family and we are working in rural development and empowerment of Women in rural India.

The Art of Living Foundation is one of the world's largest volunteer-based educational and humanitarian organisation. Through his personal interactions, teachings and humanitarian initiatives, Sri Sri has reached out to an estimated 300 million people worldwide. From over 25,000 villages in India to the ghettos of South Africa to more than 150,000 prisoners incarcerated around the world, Sri Sri is transforming lives. His wisdom, his legendary charisma and his selfless service have inspired farmers, students, housewives, professionals, social workers and thinkers alike.Touching upon every section of society and addressing every aspect required to build a violence-free, crime free and stress-free society, Sri Sri’s work covers the areas of conflict resolution, trauma relief and disaster management, stress elimination, prisoner rehabilitation, youth & women empowerment, education, community development, empowering individuals and the revival of ancient wisdom.

Please do not make baseless accusations on an enlightened master and social reformer like Sri Sri Ravishankar. I would welcome you to come and view our work first hand before writing these stuff. We are aware that India as elesewhere has deep rooted problems and we are working towards eradicating all those things.

"Non-violence and compassion should be the guiding force. If this is prevalent in our society, we can definitely make a difference. It may sound very impractical, but we will have to move in that direction because non-violence is — nobody likes violence for themselves, but we need to bring those values in life. It has to come from education and from culturing" - Sri Sri Ravishankar

Nagarjua's picture

There are a lot of philosophies, theories of Hinduism. Lot of Mahatma’s, Sri Sris, Guru’s come, talk about God but do nothing about the sufferings of people.
The reality is daily several atrocities, crimes happen on Buddhist, untouchables in India.
Can we see what actions all the Guru’s , Sri Sris and Mahatma’s take? Can we see what actions the so called ‘Independent voice of Buddhism’ takes? Or are they busy with ‘Mahatma’s’ or serve to their masters ‘Hinduism’.
Here are the latest victims of the ‘Slavery of Hinduism’.
Come see the reality.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/indiaabroad/20080317/r_t_ians_nl_general/tnl-da...

Dalit families tense after Maharashtra blinding incident

Mumbai, March 17 (IANS) Several Dalit families are said to be fleeing their villages in Nanded district of Maharashtra after the January incident in which two boys from socially marginalized communities were virtually blinded by upper caste people.
The shocking aftermath of the incident was highlighted in a report of the fact-finding committee of the Dalit Intellectuals Collective (DIC), which has several Dalit groups and personalities as its members. The DIC submitted its report last week to the state home ministry.
'Several Dalit families have started fleeing from villages in Nanded district, following the gouging out of the eyes of their two community members,' former judge B.H. Gaikwad who was part of the committee told IANS.
'We are making efforts to get the statistics of the families that have already left, but given the tense scenario, it will take some time.'
Gaikwad along with other DIC members like academics Sanjay Moon and activist Mangal Khinwasara visited the Sategaon village in Nanded district in Marathwada, the south central part of the state bordering Karnataka, where the incident took place.
Gaikwad said: 'We can actually feel the fear pulsating among the lower strata of society and the Dalits. They usually live in small hamlets in poor conditions on the banks of the Godavari river.'
In the village of around 1,250 people, the community break-up, according to the study, is Maratha 84.91 percent, Matang 7.08 percent, Buddhists 5.66 percent, Gosavi and other backward class 1.89 percent and Muslims 0.95 percent.
Matangs along with converts to Buddhism are Dalits.
'Our fact-finding mission has revealed that one of the victims, 20-year old Chandrakant Gaikwad, had a close friendship with an upper caste girl, Premala Jadhav, residing in the same village. This was resented by a section of the so-called upper castes as they not only harbour casteist sentiments but also exercise control over the local economy and administrative set-up,' Gaikwad said.
According to Gaikwad, Chandrakant and his friend Milind Jondhale, a Buddhist from the Matang community, were allegedly attacked by members of a Maratha community organisation called Chaava. They were brutally assaulted for running away with Premala to another village.
The members of Chaava went to the other village, caught the youths and tried to gouge out their eyes. The boys are now battling to get their eyesight restored partially.
Police too have been accused of adopting a partisan approach in the sensitive matter, which has further infuriated the Dalits.
'Under pressure from certain groups, police have filed a case of kidnapping and molestation against the youth. They have ignored the girl's repeated statements that are contradicting the police version, the fact that she is a major and that it was her own decision to run away from the village,' said Khinwasara, a member of the local Women's Vigilance Committee.
When news of the horrifying incident started trickling in, a local NGO, Vikas Adhyayan Kendra (VAK), set up an independent committee of prominent individuals to ferret out the truth behind the incident that has sent shockwaves among Dalits all over Maharashtra.
'In fact, it has revived memories of the atrocities and massacre of four members of a Dalit family in Khairlanji in the nearby Bhandara district of Vidarbha in eastern Maharashtra, ' Khinwasara said.
In September 2006, a mob of upper caste people had attacked four members of a Dalit family, stripped a woman and her daughter naked, and killed them along with her two sons in Khairlanji.
'So far the state government has not bothered to even look into the Sategaon matter, even though we have submitted our report with eye-opening facts. As was the case in Khairlanji, Dalit families are fleeing the villages and the so-called local self-government based committees have done nothing to build confidence among community members,' according to Gaikwad.
'It is precisely for this reason that we have demanded not just a separate inquiry to be conducted in the functioning of the Sategaon Gram Panchayat but we also want civil rights training to be imparted to Dalit women, members of the Scheduled Castes, the Scheduled Tribes and other backward communities, ' said Khinwasara.
Women activists in Maharashtra have also demanded that the state Women's Commission and Women's Protection Force be ordered to visit the girl, Premala, and find out her condition.
They also want rehabilitation of the victims of caste violence, heavy penalties and punishment to those guilty and investigation into the role of people fomenting caste clashes.

Anirudha's picture

Dear Abhinava,
I am very sad about your self loathing attitude. Why do you have to knock at the doors of a fanatic hate monger to find truth and reality. It is no one's monopoly least of all a political and religious fundamentalist even if he be a Buddhist.
I can very well guess Mr. Saint's answers, Anyone Hindu who hates being a Hindu is a good hindu and anyone who accepts his hate philosophy is a good Hindu. Simple and in a nut shell - My way or the high way.

Saint's picture

Sorry Anirudha,
Unlike yourself, I do not assume. My way is not high way, it is Buddhas way.
I never said anyone who hates being a hindu is a good hindu, that is your words and you are trying to put words into peoples mouth. What I said and stand behind my words is "Most hindus are Casteists", Most is not ALL?. That means, those hindus who is not a casteist, who is not a racist, who is a good human being who treats fellow humans with dignity and respect regardless of caste, creed, color, food, dress, locality or homeless or living in a palace.

do you call this my way or the high way?, whatever is happening to your right understanding my friend. I do not indulge in hatred, neither talk hatred, but I am educating the world how pathological and dangerous is caste and the system, and the people behind it are genocidal maniacs, casteists and racists. That's is my point.

Abhinavagupta's picture

Also, just one more thing I happen to view the Cow as a sacred animal like many other Hindus. Well infact not just the cow, I view like many other folks of my ilk that all the creation as sacred. To this effect I am also a Vegetarian. I also find that the highest number of Vegetarians and Vegetarian restraunts are found in India. In my several years of stay in the west, I really found great difficulty in locating vegetarian restraunts and vegetarian items in hotel menus. My biggest problem was in the countries like Thailand, Vietnam, Japan and China where it is too very difficult to find vegetarian food. I was just wondering from your words why such malicious people like Hindus adopted vegetarianism, at least some of them if not all.

Abhinavagupta's picture

Dear Saint,

I was indeed sad to know that majority of the Hindus are "intellectually blind, morally deviated and humanely distanced". I never realized it until I read your comments. Also I failed to grasp how a hindu like me and the near and dear Hindus around me who live in Chennai and Tamil Nadu and elsewhere in the country were violent, blind and Humanely distanced. But your next sentence gave me comfort where you mention that there are some good Hindus and even great people. Thanks a ton for your largesse and compassion shown to some of us Hindus. These minority Hindus are indeed priveleged to be recognised by you.

But also it is really painful for me to know from you that majority of my fellow Hindus are incredibly blind about truth and reality. Would you be able to share some of those features and characterstics of people of other religions like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism,Jainism and Judaism which Hindus like me can adopt so that we cannot be blind to Truth and Reality. As a Hindu I have encountered innumerable reform movements in our religion to rectify social ills and evils and I and most of my ilk would not have much of a problem in incorporating further reforms so that we not be blind to the Truth and Reality you refer to. Also I have increasingly found that majority of the people of my ilk are not so fixated about different forms of beliefs and worship and feel that Human nature being so varied they feel there are different paths to truth and reality.

Something about me, I am a practitioner/follower in the Vedanta tradition and consider myself as a man in search of truth and reality. My gurus Ramakrishna, Ramana, Vivekanda, Rama Thirtha, Nisargadatta are my guiding light and I have found great inspiration in their teachings as well as in Hindu texts like Upanishads, Baghwad Gita, Astavakra Gita, RIbu Gita, Yoga Vasishta, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, viveka chudamani, Vijnana Bhairava Tantra and many others. Among other things I also find many of my Hindu brethren intrested in the meditational practices as taught in Trika Saivism.

Also, I like many other hindus have been inspired by the teachings and lives of great hindu saints like Tukaram, Kabir, Jnanadev, Haridasas and veerashaivas of Karnataka, the Bauls of Bengal. Also like many Hindus I find solace in the Buddhist texts and traditions, the compassionate teachings of Jesus and mysticism of Islamic Sufism and Jewish Hassidism. As a student of Vedanta I find many similarities between these traditions and some of our Base texts. Sometimes I feel even to call it ours and theirs is a misnomer as it is part of the world heritage belonging to us all. I for one can read a verse from the Masnavi of Jalalud-din Rumi and correlate easily with a shloka from the say the Isha Upanishad, read a Zen anecdote and corelate easily with the astavakra gita and this applies to many other traditions like the Buddhist mahayana, vajrayana and so on.

I am also in the publishing business in India, with a keen eye on the market segement and readership and if you go to any of the Bookshops in India you can find the Books of all the above mentioned texts, traditions and teachers are widely available and well sold. I have done some reserch and have statistical models built in to analyze the readership patterns in India. India being a majority Hindu country I am sure with all the statistics at my command that these books are read by a great many educated Hindus like me. I feel the problem in India as elsewhere is a problem of wrong education and some of us Hindus through our indological publications are providing a great source towards a positive perspective of Human reality, social welfare and spiritual growth.

I would like to know from you how other religions and their publishing, propoganda and dissmentation mechanism are working in this regard. I would also like to know what the core values these people and movements are preaching vis a vis Hinduism.

Saint's picture

WHAT DO YOU REALY KNOW ABOUT DR.B.R.AMBEDKAR & His Buddhism?.

Here it is, just hear from his own words:
UNPUBLISHED

PREFACE

April 6, 1956

[Text provided by Eleanor Zelliot, as prepared by Vasant Moon]

A question is always asked to me: how I happen[ed] to take such [a] high degree of education. Another question is being asked: why I am inclined towards Buddhism. These questions are asked because I was born in a community known in India as the "Untouchables." This preface is not the place for answering the first question. But this preface may be the place for answering the second question.

The direct answer to this question is that I regard the Buddha's Dhamma to be the best. No religion can be compared to it. If a modern man who knws science must have a religion, the only religion he can have is the Religion of the Buddha. This conviction has grown in me after thirty-five years of close study of all religions.

How I was led to study Buddhism is another story. It may be interesting for the reader to know. This is how it happened.

My father was a military officer, but at the same time a very religious person. He brought me up under a strict discipline. From my early age I found certain contradictions in my father's religious way of life. He was a Kabirpanthi, though his father was Ramanandi. As such, he did not believe in Murti Puja (Idol Worship), and yet he performed Ganapati Puja--of course for our sake, but I did not like it. He read the books of his Panth. At the same time, he compelled me and my elder brother to read every day before going to bed a portion of [the] Mahabharata and Ramayana to my sisters and other persons who assembled at my father's house to hear the Katha. This went on for a long number of years.

The year I passed the English Fourth Standard Examination, my community people wanted to celebrate the occasion by holding a public meeting to congratulate me. Compared to the state of education in other communities, this was hardly an occasion for celebration. But it was felt by the organisers that I was the first boy in my community to reach this stage; they thought that I had reached a great height. They went to my father to ask for his permission. My father flatly refused, saying that such a thing would inflate the boy's head; after all, he has only passed an examination and done nothing more. Those who wanted to celebrate the event were greatly disappointed. They, however, did not give way. They went to Dada Keluskar, a personal friend of my father, and asked him to intervene. He agreed. After a little argumentation, my father yielded, and the meeting was held. Dada Keluskar presided. He was a literary person of his time. At the end of his address he gave me as a gift a copy of his book on the life of the Buddha, which he had written for the Baroda Sayajirao Oriental Series. I read the book with great interest, and was greatly impressed and moved by it.

I began to ask why my father did not introduce us to the Buddhist literature. After this, I was determined to ask my father this question. One day I did. I asked my father why he insisted upon our reading the Mahabharata and Ramayana, which recounted the greatness of the Brahmins and the Kshatriyas and repeated the stories of the degradation of the Shudras and the Untouchables. My father did not like the question. He merely said, "You must not ask such silly questions. You are only boys; you must do as you are told." My father was a Roman Patriarch, and exercised most extensive Patria Pretestas over his children. I alone could take a little liberty with him, and that was because my mother had died in my childhood, leaving me to the care of my auntie.

So after some time, I asked again the same question. This time my father had evidently prepared himself for a reply. He said, "The reason why I ask you to read the Mahabharata and Ramayana is this: we belong to the Untouchables, and you are likely to develop an inferiority complex, which is natural. The value of [the] Mahabharata and Ramayana lies in removing this inferiority complex. See Drona and Karna--they were small men, but to what heights they rose! Look at Valmiki--he was a Koli, but he became the author of [the] Ramayana. It is for removing this inferiority complex that I ask you to read the Mahabharata and Ramayana."

I could see that there was some force in my father's argument. But I was not satisfied. I told my father that I did not like any of the figures in [the] Mahabharata. I said, "I do not like Bhishma and Drona, nor Krishna. Bhishma and Drona were hypocrites. They said one thing and did quite the opposite. Krishna believed in fraud. His life is nothing but a series of frauds. Equal dislike I have for Rama. Examine his conduct in the Sarupnakha [=Shurpanakha] episode [and] in the Vali Sugriva episode, and his beastly behaviour towards Sita." My father was silent, and made no reply. He knew that there was a revolt.

This is how I turned to the Buddha, with the help of the book given to me by Dada Keluskar. It was not with an empty mind that I went to the Buddha at that early age. I had a background, and in reading the Buddhist Lore I could always compare and contrast. This is the origin of my interest in the Buddha and His Dhamma.

The urge to write this book has a different origin. In 1951 the Editor of the Mahabodhi Society's Journal of Calcutta asked me to write an article for the Vaishak Number. In that article I argued that the Buddha's Religion was the only religion which a society awakened by science could accept, and without which it would perish. I also pointed out that for the modern world Buddhism was the only religion which it must have to save itself. That Buddhism makes [a] slow advance is due to the fact that its literature is so vast that no one can read the whole of it. That it has no such thing as a bible, as the Christians have, is its greatest handicap. On the publication of this article, I received many calls, written and oral, to write such a book. It is in response to these calls that I have undertaken the task.

To disarm all criticism I would like to make it clear that I claim no originality for the book. It is a compilation and assembly plant. The material has been gathered from various books. I would particularly like to mention Ashvaghosha's Buddhavita [=Buddhacharita], whose poetry no one can excel. In the narrative of certain events I have even borrowed his language.

The only originality that I can claim in [=is] the order of presentation of the topics, in which I have tried to introduce simplicity and clarity. There are certain matters which give headache[s] to the student of Buddhism. I have dealt with them in the Introduction.

It remains for me to express my gratitude to those who have been helpful to me. I am very grateful to Mr. Nanak Chand Rattua of Village Sakrulli and Mr. Parkash Chand of Village Nangal Khurd in the district of Hoshiarpur (Punjab) for the burden they have taken upon themselves to type out the manuscript. They have done it several times. Shri Nanak Chand Rattu took special pains and put in very hard labour in accomplishing this great task. He did the whole work of typing etc. very willingly and without caring for his health and [=or] any sort of remuneration. Both Mr. Nanak Chand Rattu and Mr. Parkash Chand did their job as a token of their greatest love and affection towards me. Their labours can hardly be repaid. I am very much grateful to them.

When I took up the task of composing the book I was ill, and [I] am still ill. During these five years there were many ups and downs in my health. At some stages my condition had become so critical that doctors talked of me as a dying flame. The successful rekindling of this dying flame is due to the medical skill of my wife and Dr. Malvankar. They alone have helped me to complete the work. I am also thankful to Mr. M. B. Chitnis, who took [a] special interest in correcting [the] proof and to go [=in going] through the whole book.

I may mention that this is one of the three books which will form a set for the proper understanding of Buddhism. The other books are: (i) Buddha and Karl Marx; and (ii) Revolution and Counter-Revolution in Ancient India. They are written out in parts. I hope to publish them soon.

B. R. Ambedkar
26 Alipur Road, Delhi
6-4-56

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ambedkar/ambedkar_buddha/...

Saint's picture

Giovanni, comment#120.

Yes, whether Einstein is a criminal or not, he is certainly not relevant to peace or love. In his own personal life he betrayed his wife immensley, a significant portion of his Nobel Prize work was actually belong to his wife. Both academically and in family life he was a betrayer, let along talk about him on the national or international or humanitarian level. People like him quoted Gandhi's name for the lack of understanding, bias and political mileage. India's slaversim to the British was the highest point of the world's history, anything happened in India was the talking point of the world, so ironically India became synonymous with the evil Gandhi's name, it was no surprise that so called leading personalities around the world used his name in their views and in their writings.

Comment #121 and other Comments of Rohit Jadhav,
You are bringing excellent information, thanks for the insights.

Comment#124
Your dream is a reality, all those names will be erased in the future generation, the social understanding and progress aided by technological progress brings a new thinking.

A new thinking embedded with asking a question of what is truth and what is not?.

The younger generation will not be easily swayed by religious stupidity, false propagandas, inhuman and insane beliefs, as a result, all those names such as Gandhi (which is already an erased names except you see or hear some whisperings!?), Mandela, King, Chavez.....will be erased.

I am not surprised why King used Gandhi's name, but I am very surprised and shocked why Nelsan Mandela used Gandhi's name and his self-procalimed non-voilence.......

Gandhi made disgusting statments about African blacks, he hated them and talked about them venomously, he wrote about it and he made stage talks about it.

Mandela is a intellectually blind man!, I am amazed a personality so big, so moving and powerful like Mandela praising a devil like Gandhi. For a personality of his stature and great service he has done to Africa and black people of his country and the world, he is way bigger and greater than Gandhi, terribly sorry that he utters the word Gandhi.

As far as King concerned and why he has used Gandhi's name.........King understood that any means to get the attention of whites or American administrators to liberate the blacks from slaverism is by non-voilence.

However, King's understanding of where the peace and non-voilence concept came to this world was poor or blind folded by Gandhian activities, because King and Gandhi were contemporaries fighting against slaverism (one was against race and human rights, the other was against freedom of India and hinduism from Britishers, not humanity or human rights???......so contrasting but the end means are similar....to get out of the hold of rulers?).

King's usage of Gandhi's name is again for great political leverage, King had no idea about Buddhism, and he had poor understanding about Lord Buddha, not only just King, his entire family is still talking about Gandhi.

The whole of King's family knows nothing about Buddhism and Buddha, what can you expect from them. Several decades after King's Death, his wife or daughter went to the Gandhi's meetings and talked about him, that is the nature and depth of their lives on the truth?.

Chavez, I have no idea who is he/she. Let me not waste time on writing about him.

About Aung San Suu Kyi,
I am not sure if she is a Gandhian talker or can be put along the names of King or Mandela, though her fight is similar to them, she is a Buddhist.

Her knowledge and practice on Buddhism is of importance to us, but personally I have no knowledge that Suu Kyi's is linient towards hindu thoughts or Gandhian thoughts.........she is much more closer to India geographically and culturally than King or Mandela, I am interested to learn about what would be her inclination on this issue. I wish she is a good and true Buddhist like Dr.B.R.Ambedkar

Yea, this is going to my most favorite comment:
About Dalai Lama.

Dalai Lama, though I like him as an individual or as a practicing Buddhist. But, he is no way can influence me as a true Buddhist. He is far more distanced from real Buddhism than what our savior Dr.B.R.Ambedkar or the Goenka's mentor did to this world.

Both Dr.B.R.Ambedkar and Goenka's Mentor (sorry, I do not have the name on top of my head, but I will mention it later), are great modern Buddhists of practical in nature. What Buddha did in his entire life by teaching, preaching and practicing along non-voilence and peace worked for Buddha and that time of the civilization very well. The other reasons why Buddha did what he did during those days is that Buddha was not a public personality or figure like Ambedkar, Buddha was seculuded man while he was a King's son (his interactions were utterly limited to the King's family and sorroundings), when he left the house to find out the truth, it was similar there too.

Even at this juncture he lived a very seculuded life with meditation, monks and limited followers while preachings.

There was no way Buddha would have experienced a life similar to working or running a law firm, a fedral government or a ministry, a university professor, a research scholar, a political leader or a greate speaker and writer like B.R.Ambedkar.

Under those circumstances, they made strategies accordingly to the society that would work and benefit people. Intellecually blind, morally deviated, humanely distanced hindus can never understand or talk about those intricacies, their perpetrating and hard wired to implict harm on other's will never allow them to see such a great insights of B.R.Ambedkar. I am not saying all hindus are like this, there are good hindus and great people, but overall, the majority of hindus concerned, they are incredebly blind about truth and reality. Ask them to stop making pampous statements about India is great or hindus are great?, you will know what would be the response, why ask them those questions......just read the types of comments they make here?. It is pathologic, besides they will blame the dalits and others, saying they are responsbile for their life, this and that..........some one is saying here that they have to look into the self and discover.....discover what?. While the self is destroyed by a 3000 year old subjugation and suppresive hindu behaviors, what would you look inside a self to realize. Mind is a interactive one dear friend, without interacting with brain and it's functions, mind would be meanigless even at theoritical level. Let us not go to practical level, as we did not reach a stage where we can provide practial explation for for mind, so do not come here and through your hindu sh...t.....we are not going to buy those ruthless and meaningless ideas.

Ask, those people who argue or putforth points if Ambedkar ever invloved or connected to any voilence or individual attack?. On the other hand, ask them another question, how is Gandhi's involvement in Voilence, killing and massacre?. Let us see how much true knowledge they possess?.

Dr.B.R.Ambedkar's life and his work cannot be, cannot be even distantly related to voilence, he was never known to even abuse an individual by words, neither in his family nor outside.............., despite personaly tarmented by hindu's.

Dr.B.R. was attacked by hindus in almost every single ways possible by hindus, he was not allowed to drink water, he was not allowed to rent a room, he was not allowed to travel in a cart....so on and so forth, with all those hurts, humiliations and damages to his physical and emotional compents, he never involved in hurting people.

Ofcourse his stage talks and writings have strong words and language against hinduism, that is how it should be. I write so strongly about hinduism even though I never, ever had even a single such episode of what Dr.B.R.Ambedkar underwent in hindus hands. [Saint: That does not stop me from writing against or about hindus, because, I know the truth and I wanted to tell the truth to this world].

Dr.Ambedkar's mind is the ultimate example for humanity, peace, love, compassion or whatever you call it. Gandhi on the other hand, directly involved in killing, just browse over the comments in this blog and other blogs, with evidence and supporting documents, one can learn about this evil person.

So, Dali Lama is no way a representative true Buddhism. He is a Buddhist I know and you know, but not to an extent like Dr.Ambedkar or some true Buddhists, who truely represent the thoughts and workings of Lord Buddha himself. Besides, Buddha would have disgusted to see Dalai Lama's escape to India and living a fugitive's life, besides satisfying hindus by trumpheting Gita, Gandhi and Government of India, otherwise, they will through him out of India. What would have Lord Buddha done under this circumstances (think------you can see the truth about Dalai Lama). While China is sabatoging the lives of Nepalis and Buddhist monks, Dalai Lama did not have the abilities and strategies to find out a solution rather escaped and living in India, there is no way he can stay away from talking about Gandhi. Well, there is, even if Dalai Lama is in Nepal, he might talk about Gandhi, Dalai Lama after all is from what background (?????). So, what Dalai Lama practices and preaches is not my Buddhism nor the real Lord Buddha's Buddhism. I am not surprised why the author of this magazine is following Dalai Lama and portray Gandhi on this cover?.

Comment # Songotha, I merely wasted few minutes of my time reading your's, make no sense. Dr.Ambedkar or true Buddhists will not represent Gandhi, nor they are intend to, so, go keep this to yourself and do some veda/gita's worshiping on it. We are wide awake people, we wanted to aks questions, we do not blindly believe cow is sacred, or gandhi is great. If there is no scientific or rational or reasonable explanation that cannot be provided, it makes no sense to us: and We are Engaged Buddhist and we can challenge a person like Dalai Lama!.

Truth?, what is it, where is it? and who sabatoged it?.

Ask yourself this question, seek for it. And, come here and write about it when you find it.

Comment # 126, great message Milinda.

Thanks,
Saint

Saint's picture

Comment #135, Roshan.

Roshan, I have no idea about what is your message here on this board. I
I wish that people read the earlier comments to get an idea about what is the relevance of thier arguments or point of concern in this message board. We are not here to talk about sikhs, srilankans.

We are here to find out the truth, the background forces behind "Buddhist magazines" propagating and trumpheting" hindu perpetrators of Buddhism, such as a personality like Gandhi.

Would you please go through all those comments above 1-134 and see if there is anything relevant you can offer here.

Whatever Sikhs or the state of Punjab is, they are no different than hindus when it is concerned to humanity and approach of another human, they discriminate and indulge in activities similar to hindus.

Let us not waste our time on talking about those, do you have anything to say why Buddhists are sabotaged or beeing targeted by hindus?. Then say, we can learn something from what you know.

Saint

Roshan's picture

In the late 70s and early 80s, there was a huge propoganda in India and abroad that the Sikhs in india were discriminated by the Hindus. This propoganda plus the arms pumped in from across the borders created lot of terrorist atrocities on Hindus. Ironically it was the Sikhs who stood behind the Hindus and were in lot many ways Hindus in their religions. The Sikhs were a marital and patriotic race who were held in high esteem by all Indians. They were also rich with punjab being one of the richest state in India. But goebellian propoganda plus the arms and ammunition across the border created the state of social unrest. The Sikhs also got support from abroad by publishing stories of atrocities.UK, cannada and Norway supported them. We can see a some of those mastermind sikhs used this propoganda to leave India and settle down in Southall in London and Cannada. But because of this malicious propoganda they were alienated and there were several terrorist attacks by Sikhs which finally culminated in the assasination of Indira Gandhi and the subsequent killing of Sikhs in delhi. After the end of the afghan - russian war the arms from across the indain border stopped. So has all this propoganda against Sikh atrocities have died down as it lacked any substance. However there are even now some minor sections of Sikhs in London, Cannada and america who benefitted from this propoganda by their western masters and they hold conferences on Hindu atrocities on Sikhs. This notwithstanding the fact that the prime minister of India is a Sikh.

On exactly a similar vien, my country Sri Lanka was a peaceful Island in the 70s. The Sinhalese who were buddhists were in a better social scale and conditions than the Tamil Hindus in the north of the island. The Tamils who were fisherman and farmers were poorer than the sinhalese. The Tamils did not have much representation in the government. Apart from this they were localized in the northern part of Sri Lanka which was close to India. Instead of going for a democratic and peaceful way of addressing the problems the Tamils took to violent warfare. There were papers published on the atrocities on Tamils, these publications were circulated in europe and america. The prime message of these propoganda generators was the Sinhalese were demons sucking the blood of Tamils. These were again supported by nations like UK, Cannada, Norway and lately Israel. Some of the clever ones among the Tamils benefitted through this propoganda and they settled down in developed countries in Eastham of London, Cannada and Switzerland. Meanwhile Sri Lanka has been ripped apart. The Tamil tigers who are fighting there don't even know how it all started. The Tamil Tigeers also have been instrumental in killing prominent politicians including prime minsters of India and Srilanka through Suicide Bombing. When I see my War ravaged country now I always wonder if there could have been a better solution. The Tamils are no better as a result of this violent conflict so are the Sinhalese. Our whole country has suffered.
Whenever I see places like Southhall or Eastham, I always wonder how these settlements came about and how much blood was spilled for these minority who stay here and enjoy the benefits of modern western soceity. How much malicious propoganda have been written in the hate philosophies of these people.
I always wonder could there have been a better solution for these problems. Can peace be given a chance. Would passive ressistantance, non-violent protests and non cooperation be a better way to handle these. I have always wondered if these people could have given a chance to peace and non-violence they would have benifitted much more. Obviously the propoganda machinery was so strong no one even ventured to heed the message of peace and non-violence.

Chandramohan's picture

Read the works of Swami Vivekananda for a true understanding of Hinduism.

Milinda's picture

To all Indian Caste HIndus/non Indians who are supporter of Gandhian subtle philosophy of hatred and oppression,

One cant forget the basics, we need to understand what is truth gandhi propogaged Hinduism.

Obviously Buddha was unhappy and had got engaged against inhuman inequal vedic religious practices.

If Dr. Ambedkar was against spreading Hinduism a mental dieases amongst Dalits what was wrong he being angry with gandhi tried keep Dalit under the Hindu illusion and kept them mentally unhealthy.

It was great act of reembracing the Buddhism by Dr. Ambedkar who relieved the "untouchables" from the age old caste slavery and which had eroded the psychic health of caste hindus.

But gandhi was coward and perisite like other caste hindus who were dependent on maintaining the caste hierarcachy for their future generations.

Now you see it is getting very difficult for them to see what is infront of their nose.

It needs courage and ethics to talk truth and face untruth.

Best wishes keep ruling and oppressing the masses under illussions of Hinduism.

People who suffered from gandhis philosophy would understand what does it mean to be oppressed and remain untouchables.

Such discussions on blog will continue with strong support for gandhi from his followers from India and their fellow culprit non-indian friends.

Enjoy remaining blind or pretending to be blind and let people suffer miseries. Be happy !!

But people who follow engaged Buddhism who are and will keep fighting for their dignity and justice !!!

They dont expect support from people who are coward and slaves of their own mind!

’Freedom of mind is the real freedom. A person, whose mind is not free though he may not be in chains, is a slave, not a free man. One whose mind is not free though alive, is no better than dead. Freedom of mind is the proof of one’s existence’.
- Dr. Ambedkar, Founding father of Modern India

Nagarjua's picture

DEEPEST RESPECT TO REV. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. , NELSON MANDELA. THEY FOUGHT AGAINST DISCRIMINATION, SLAVERY. THEY FOUGHT FOR HUMAN DIGNITY, EQUALITY, TRUTH.

It's an INSULT TO THEM if racist, casteist, womaniser Gandhi is compared with them.

Simple following questions could clear the doubts about Gandhi's work. What he preached and what he acted
What courage and actions did he undertake to "Fight against Caste system"?
Did he have courage to go against Hinduism and its religious scripts that are the root cause the Slavery of Hinduism?

To all western media and people involved in crusader of 'Slavery'.
It's not new. The Brahmanical media has always created a illusion leaders, hid the crimes of Hinduism against humanity.
Do not fall prey to the Brahmanical media who have kept the world in dark about the heinous slavery of 'Hinduism'? They have kept in dark for several centuries, created a illusion of Gandhi.

Come to India. Stay for few years.
Experience the 'Slavery in Hinduism' even today.
Experience the suffering of millions of untouchables. They are subject to unspeakable crimes and atrocities e.g gangrape, mass murder, social boycott. Their life is worse than animal.
http://atrocitynews.wordpress.com/
http://atrocitynews.wordpress.com/bbc-world-interview-snapshots/

Do not forget to see how many Indians, Buddhists, untouchables go to pay homage to Gandhi on his birthday, death anniversary.

Do not forget to see How many millions Indians, Buddhists, untouchables go pay homage to Dr. Ambedkar on his death anniversary Dec 6 Chaityabhoomi, Mumbai.
Do not forget to see the Buddhist revolution 'Dhamma Chakrapravartan Din' in Nagpur on VijayaDashmi day in Oct. This is the day when close to million untouchables embraced Buddhism along with Dr. Ambedkar on Oct 14, 1956.
See for yourself the respect
And yes, this is after 50 years these events happened.

You would have guessed it right.
Probably the answers to the questions lie with people for whom they fought for.

From #10 posting
=================================

Gandhi is idolized by people of all political stripes around the world, and his life is popularly considered a model for the American Civil Rights Movement.

U.S. Senator Harry Reid called Gandhi “a giant in morality.” Former U.S president Ronald Reagan signed a bill creating a “National Day of Recognition for Mohandas K. Gandhi.” South African leader Nelson Mandela called Gandhi “the archetypal anticolonial revolutionary” whose “nonviolent resistance inspired anticolonial and antiracist movements.” African-American Senator Obama reportedly keeps a picture of Gandhi in his office.

Martin Luther King, Jr. associated Gandhi with the African-American struggle against inequality, segregation, and racism. Reverend King believed Gandhi was “inspired by the vision of humanity evolving toward…peace and harmony.” When the Indian government paid to place a statue of Gandhi at the Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial Center in Atlanta, Mrs. King spoke about her husband’s admiration for Gandhi, saying, “It is gratifying and appropriate that this statue is installed in this historic site.”

Unfortunately, these people were never acquainted with the real, historical Mohandas Gandhi, who was a virulent racist.

Gandhi was hired to work as an attorney for wealthy Indian traders in South Africa. He moved there in 1893 and soon helped establish the Natal Indian Congress. The goal of this Congress was to “promote concord and harmony among the Indians and Europeans residing in the colony [of South Africa].” Instead of concord and harmony with the blacks, however, Gandhi promoted racial segregation. The major achievement of the Congress was the successful attempt, spear-headed by Gandhi, to fix the Durban post office “problem.” This issue is discussed in-depth here.

In 1904, Gandhi founded The Indian Opinion, a newspaper which he used as a political tool to promote his personal views. It is in this paper, which Gandhi edited until 1914, that we find a record of his extensive anti-black activism and opinions. A list of anti-black quotes from his writings, in which he invariably refers to the South African natives as “Kaffirs,” can be found here. Gandhi’s opinion of the native is best summarized when he calls them people “whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness.”

Finally, in 1906, Gandhi cheered on the British as they waged a war on the black Zulus. He then volunteered for military service himself, attaining the rank of Sgt. Major in the British Army and assisting the war on blacks in every way he could. You can learn more about this here.

One of the best-known heroes of the American Civil Rights Movement was Rosa Parks, the black lady who refused to sit at the back of the bus. While Gandhi is upheld as a champion of equality, the truth is that he probably would not even have allowed Mrs. Parks on the bus in the first place. He proudly said that among South African Indians, the “co-mingling of the coloured and white races…is practically unknown.” Gandhi also boasted, “If there is one thing, which the Indian cherishes, more than any other, it is the purity of type.”

People remember Rev. King for his most famous speech, in which he said: “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” To associate Martin Luther King, Jr. with Mohandas Gandhi, whose dream was to clear the way for Apartheid in South Africa, is an insult to the memory of Rev. King.

MOREOVER THE ATROCITIES ARE COMMITTED ON DAILY BASIS ON DALITS(every day a dalit is killed, a woman is raped pl visit http://www.atrocitynews.wordpress.com) IN INDIA IS SILENT OUTCOME OF VARNASHRAMA THEORY CONCRETISED BY GANDHI AND HIS FOLLOWERS THRU PANCHAYATI RAJ MECHANISM…NETIZENS, PLEASE BEWARE OF GURUs&MAHATMA BRANDS< THEY ARE CURRUPTING HUMANISM

Ashwagosha's picture

I am not sure why we should be so disparaging of Self Help gurus. Most of them prescribe practices and knowledge which help us live in a peaceful, compassionate and sane way. There are several reasons why Ambedkar cannot be remodeled as a self help guru. Unlike the self help Gurus (most of them) who teach that the external problems can be resolved through internal means, Ambedkar holds that the external factors is what creates the self, identity and models the internal psyche. Any change to the internal world cannot be brought about without a change in the external world. Ambedkar adopted the cartesian, mechanistic view of the world as taught by John Dewy and this view was popular amongst many of the western philosophers in America during those times. Most post modern philosophers since the 17th century Kant had seen through the folly of this worldview and adopted a view which gave credence to the metaphyisical and provided a critque of linear reason. The cartesian and mechanistic view is in contradiction to the organic wholistic view of the world which the eastern religions including Buddhism upholds. Hence Ambedkar had to rewrite the story of the Buddha in order to fit it into this philosophical worldview. However the Buddhist path is the path of Individual nirvana and not exclusively a social movement. The social movement was a consequence and not the primary driver. Ambedkar interpreted the Buddhist Sangha as an exclusive social movement against oppression. However the Buddhist Sangha was predominantly a group of people who relinquished social heirarchy and also occupational Identity - not just in the context of caste but in a much more radical way of being out of the functional social heirarcy. This is also evidenced in most monastics from the ancient shramans, jain ascetics, hindu sanyasis, christian gnostics and sufi dervishes. They also were non productive people from a cartesian viewpoint and spent and focussed all their energies towards meditation and awareness. This the Buddha clearly encouraged and motived through his huge body of talks which we can see in the tripitaka.

The biggest folly of the cartesian worldview is how much can the external world be changed to create an internal reality, how long can you blame others for all the problems. The Buddha's message was 'if the path is full of thorns then use sandals rather than picking on the thorns". The cartesian view also supposes that human nature is homogenous within a sectarian and tribal context and therby fosters an 'us versus them' paradigm. However the buddha maintained and gave high importance to individual differences in samskaras and never appropriated a behaviour or characterstics on huge groups of people. Buddha maintained that the sanskaras had to be dealt with on a individual context sensitive way. The sanskaras among individuals are different even in between blood brothers and it can be similar between people seggregated by the most divisive races or tribes. This kind of teaching is what makes something which has an Universal appeal and we see this is what many humanistic self help teachers preach. Hence even in Gandhi's teaching we find the sounds of universal truths to some extent.
We can also see in India the kind of leaders the Ambedkar movement has spawned. There have been many leaders, ploiticians, ministers, and even a chief ministers who belong to the dalit community. We can see Orwell's animal farm repeated all over again. The hatred and greed cannot so easily resolved just through political machinations.

Shambunath's picture

Songotha,
Ambedkar is not a self help guru. He was a revolutionary leader fighting for human dignity against atrocities. He himself had bitter experiences in life due to caste discrimination.
If you want to read sweet goody goody things and get inspired by them read self help books. Most self help books quote Gandhi. You can read all these people like Deepak chopra, Dalai lama and Thich Nath Han. If you really want to change soceity then you might need Ambedkar's teachings.

Songotha's picture

As a Buddhist, one of the reason why Ambedkar never appeals to me on a personal level is because of the vengeance and hatred he expressed in his writings and its reading generates.

Even though Ambedkar was a party to Poona Pact, he was never reconciled to it. He was as much responsible for the Poona pact as Gandhi was. His contempt against Gandhi continued even after his assassination. On the death of Gandhi he expressed, "My real enemy has gone, thank goodness the eclipse is over". He equated the assassination of Gandhi with that of Caesar and the remark of Cicero to the messenger - "Tell the Romans, your hour of liberty has come". He further remarked, "While one regrets the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi, one cannot help finding in his heart the echo of the sentiments expressed by Cicero on the assassination of Caesar". Considering Gandhi as a "positive danger to this country", he quoted from Bible that "sometime good cometh out of evil, so also I think good will come out of the death of Mr. Gandhi".

The reaction of Ambedkar over the death of Gandhi may be viewed as a politics of negation for vengeance against the caste Hindus and also for political power for Dalits. But he systematically disregarded any progressive elements among the Hindus and constantly focussed on the negatives. This is typical among many of the radical sub-alterns who try to demonize their opponents beyond realistic proportions. The converted buddhists even claim Buddha was involved in such an exercise but through the study of the Buddhist sutras we never get that sense of hatred against any sect or community irrespective of whether they were oppressive or not.

Contrast this to Gandhi's views on Ambedkar. Gandhi said he had "the highest regard for Dr. Ambedkar. He has every right to be bitter. That he does not break our heads is an act of self- restraint on his part." Writing to an English friend two years later, he said he found "nothing unnatural" in Ambedkar's hostility to the Congress and its supporters. "He has not only witnessed the inhuman wrongs done to the social pariahs of Hinduism", reflected this Hindu, "but in spite of all his culture, all the honours that he has received, he has, when he is in India, still to suffer many insults to which untouchables are exposed." In June 1936 Gandhi pointed out once again that Dr. Ambedkar "has had to suffer humiliations and insults which should make any one of us bitter and resentful." "Had I been in his place," he remarked, "I would have been as angry."

Gandhi had the element of empathy and compassion in him which made him dear to many people and hence we witness the huge following he had in his lifetime. Gandhi's following was not confined just to upper caste hindus as many people claim here. As a matter of fact he had strong opposition from upper caste Hindus and was eventually killed by one. He had a following cutting across class, religion, caste, gender and racial divides. There is an universal appeal about Gandhi which is missing in sectarian philosophies and leaders.

Radha Jagtap's picture

The past is no more - Gandhis and Ambedkars are dead and gone. We have to take the best these great men hd to offer and then move on. Why bother about fighting on what they said or did now, you can't change any of those. The only sane voices coming out of India are from people like the Dalai Lama and Sri Sri Ravishankar. Sri Sri Ravishankar has created a revolution in India both in Urban and rural areas by effectively bringing knowledge of spirituality and meditation and use them as forces for social transformation. I request Tricycle to feature Sri Sri Ravishankar. Sri Sri Ravishankar through the art of living foundation and International association of Human values has been working towards a stress free and peaceful world.

Rohit Jadhav's picture

Thich Nath Hanh on Gandhain means of struggle adopted by the Buddhist Monks in Vietnam:

"The nature of the struggle is not a doctrine to be materialized by a program of action; it is communication and love. Thus, its leaders must create and inspire love for the masses in the hearts of their people. They touch the people by altruistic acts born from their own love. When Nhat Chi Mai burned herself because she wanted to be a "torch in the dark night," she moved millions of Vietnamese. The force she engendered was the force of love for non-violent action." [Side note from Start Loving: I always felt more horror than anything at the self immolation of Buddhist monks in Vietnam. Last month in reading Dellinger, and close advisor of King, I learned that such an immolation by a Buddhist Monk was largely responsible for Dr. King coming out against the Vietnam war. It touched Dr. King's heart as nothing else had"
"Another means - the one most often used by Gandhi to communicate with the people - has been fasting. Thousends of Vietnamese, both as individuals and in groups, have fasted to try to end the war. One fasts to pray, to purify one's heart and strengthen the will - or to arouse the silent awareness and compassion of the population. In 1966, Venerable Thich Tri Quang fasted for 100 days, deeply affecting the people of Vietnam."

"The non-violent struggle in Vietnam goes on - amid vast pain and hardship. The world is just beginning to understand that peace everywhere, as well as the future of Vietnam, is linked to this movement. Its success and its contribution to the humanist revolution throughout the world depends upon your understanding and your help."

milinda's picture

Mr. John Preston,

Please do not interpret what is India, I have seen most of the foreigners are illusioned with biased due to company of gandhian or fundamentalists who are from caste hindu communities. To have a balanced view please sometime attempt to interact with Indian Buddhists and oppressed communities.

It seems you have not read all these posts above posts. This has happening first time in the history so rapidly because one will need to listen to truth as truth and untruth as untruth. Now marginalized people who were "untouchables" under 3000 year old caste system are raising their voice. Thanks to Internet revolution, but still people like you would support the fundamentalists like gandhi who did not nothing but propogated Hindu ideologies.

If you are supporting him so much then you should answer why he did not accept buddhism or supported Dr. AMbedkar who revived Buddhism in India.

You asked if i stayed in gandhi ashrams. Yes i stayed and seen what is happening in Gandhi Ashrams where they preach orthodox village economy advocating for "go back to villages" and decentralization.

Gandhi was a rural romantic, who wished to make the self-governing village the bedrock of free India; Ambedkar an admirer of city life and modern technology who dismissed the Indian village as a den of iniquity. Gandhi was a crypto-anarchist who favoured non-violent protest while being suspicious of the state; Ambedkar a steadfast constitutionalist, who worked within the state and sought solutions to social problems with the aid of the state.

About Intercaste marriage. You site number 3 marriages attended by gandhi, i dont know any. Please write specific. atleast quote one intercaste marriage with "untouchable" or any other kind of intercaste marriages.
Gandhi said, “I consider the four divisions to be fundamental, natural and essential.”6 At this time Gandhi envisaged an India with four castes of equal status separated only by their traditional occupations. In “Young India”6 October 1921 he wrote, “Hinduism does most emphatically discourage interdining and intermarriage between divisions… Prohibitions against intermarriage and interdining is essential for the rapid evolution of the soul.”

He was also against his own son (business caste) to get married to Bhrahmin girl. After 5 years they got married.
Gandhi was fundamentaly believer in inequality.
It was only before his death you can his statement sanctioning the marriages amongst caste hindu castes but rejecting intercaste marriage between caste hindu and "untouchable" castes. In the Hindu Standard January 4th 1946 gandhi wrote, “I therefore tell all the boys and girls who want to marry at Sevagram Ashram unless one of the parties is a Harijan (untouchable).”

"To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell

Rohit Jadhav's picture

Sangamitra,

Maybe the tricycle magazine should stop featuring all these people like Dalai Lama, Aung Sang Suu Kyi, Albert Einstien, Nelson Mandela, Maha Goshananda - the Gandhi of Cambodia, Martin Luther King Junior, and famous scientists like Nikolai Tesla,Neil Bohr, Schordinger etc who had many good things to say about Gandhi.

Instead the Magazine should feature the enlightened views of people like Winston Churchill who described the 'Half Naked Fakir' Gandhi in such exalted terms most endearable to the Buddhists protesting against Gandhi here - "It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr. Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer...this malignant subversive fanatic...striding half-naked up to the steps of the Viceregal palace, while he is still organising and conducting a defiant campaign of civil disobedience, to parley on equal terms with the representative of the King-Emperor...The truth is that Gandhiism and all it stands for will, sooner or later, have to be grappled with and finally crushed. It is no use trying to satisfy a tiger by feeding him cats meat...it must be made plain that the British nation has no intention of reliquishing its mission in India...we have no intention of casting away the most truly bright and precious jewel in the Crown of the King, which more than all our other Dominions and Dependencies constitutes the glory and strength of the British Empire" - Winston Churchill, 1932

Sanghamitra's picture

After the apology from tricycle editors we need to go after Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi, Chavez. Me thinks we should boycott these people as well, they are part of the same do-gooders conspiracy of not walking the talk.
King junior and Einstien are not alive anymore we can't do much to their works. Maybe erase those words from their writings so that Gandhi does not get positive coverage.

Rohit Jadhav's picture

Gandhians on Gandhi

Five Leaders who prevailed with the spirit of non violence

His Holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama of Tibet: "The place of Gandhi's cremation was a calm and beautiful spot. I felt very grateful to be there, the guest of a people who, like me, had endured foreign domination, grateful also to be in the country that had adopted ahimsa, the Mahatma's doctrine of nonviolence. As I stood praying , I experienced simultaneously great sadness at not being able to meet Gandhi in person and great joy at the magnificent example of his life. To me, he was and is - the consummate politician, a man who put who put his belief in altruism above any personal considerations. I was convinced, too that his devotion to the cause of nonviolence was the only to conduct politics"

Nelson Mandela, First President of Post- Apartheid South Africa : "Gandhi remains today the complete critique of advanced industrial society. Others have criticized its totalitarianism, but not its productive apparatus. He is not against science and technology, but he places priority on the right to work and opposes mechanization to the extent that it usurps this right. Large-scale machinery, he holds concentrates wealth in the hands of one man who tyrannizes the rest. He favors the small machine, he seeks to keep the individual in control of his tools, to maintain an interdependent love relation between the two, as a cricketer with his bat or Krishna with his flutes. Above all he seeks to liberate the individual from his alienation to the machine and restore morality to the productive process."

Martin Luther King Jr :minister and civil rights activist: "Gandhi was inevitable. If humanity is to progress , Gandhi is inescapable. He lived , thought and acted, inspired by the vision of humanity evolving towards a world of peace and harmony. We may ignore him at our own risk."

Aung San Suu Kyi, Founder of Burma's National League for Democracy: "The life and works of Gandhiji as I was taught to refer to him even as a child, are both thought provoking and inspiring for those who wish to reach a righteous goal by righteous means. I would like to focus on two short comments by Gandhiji on compulsion and discipline. In the April 17, 1930, issue of Young India he wrote: 'We may not use compulsion even in the matter of doing a good thing. Any compulsion will ruin the cause.' Gandhiji further wrote in the December 20, 1931, issue of the same publication, 'We cannot learn discipline by compulsion'. These simple statements reach to the very heart of our attempts to build a strong and united Burma based on the consent and goodwill of the people"

Cesar Chavez, founder of United Farm Workers: "Gandhi is an example. He showed us not by talking, not by what he wrote as much as by his actions, his own willingness to live by truth and by respect for mankind and accepting the sacrifices. You see, nonviolence exacts a very high price from one who practices it But once you are able to meet that demand then you can do most things, provided you have the time. Gandhi showed how a whole nation could be liberated without army. This is the first time in the history of the world when a huge nation occupied for over a century, achieved independence by nonviolence. It was a long struggle, and it takes time."

Rohit Jadhav's picture

The self-exiled Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama says he once met Mahatma Gandhi - in dream.

'In this lifetime, I never met him. But at least on one occasion during a winter in Potala palace (in Lhasa), in my dream, I met Mahatma Gandhi,' he said after inaugurating the Satyagraha Centenary International Conference here Tuesday.

'As Buddhists, we believe in the rebirth theory. So, I feel that in previous lifetime, I had some contact with Gandhiji,' he added.

Illustrating the global legacy of Mahatma Gandhi, he told the audience of Gandhians and students that American civil rights leader Martin Luther King's widow had told him that her husband was so attracted by Gandhi's philosophy that he wanted to dress in his manner.

'Can you imagine, an American black in dhoti?' he said, with his characteristic infectious giggles.

He pointed out that non-violence was not 'mere absence of violence'.

'The absence of violence could also be due to fear. Genuine non-violence is related to sincere motivation (of the practitioner),' said Dalai Lama.

The Tibetan leader, who has been in exile in India since 1959, pointed out that non-violence, compassion and religious tolerance were India's ancient values that it has exported to the rest of the world.

'I tell my young Indian friends that they should realise their richness and keep them as living tradition,' he said.

Rohit Jadhav's picture

His Holiness the Dalai Lama on Nov 19th 2007 inaugurated the Satyagraha Centenary International Conference on "Globalization of the Gandhian Way: Sociology, Politics and Science of Satyagraha" organised by Jawaharlal Nehru University. The seven-day conference was partly held in Bithiharwa, the village where Gandhi trained satyagrahis on Indian soil. Gandhi said that the root of every Violence or Conflict is Untruth and that the only permanent solution of Conflict is Truth. Consequently, to resolve conflicts he conceived of a novel technique that he called Satyagraha. Literally it means Satya (Truth) With Agraha (Firmness) or, the Unwavering Search for the Truth. And since the only way of getting to Truth is by Non-Violence (or Love), it follows that Satyagraha implies an Unwavering Search for the Truth using Non-Violence

The programme started with the offering to His Holiness of a poster of the Burmese Nobel Laureate Aung San Su Kyi by a Burmese Satyghari.

The Dalai Lama said that he admired Gandhi's political struggle, and the importance of dialogue in resolving issuses as violence creates more violence. He expressed his pleasure in young people taking interest in Gandhian philosophy.

Giovanni's picture

Einstien himself was the greatest criminal of our age. He was partly instrumental in the creation of the Atomic Bomb through his mass-energy convertion equation. The world has never been the same after this. After his monstrous discovery he waxed eloquent about peace and non-violence. It is not quite surprising that most of these sceintists especially the nuclear physicists like Einstien and Oppenhiemer found their inspiration and solace in scriptures like Baghwad Geeta, a text so full of contradictions. After the first ever atomic explosion Oppenhiemer was found Quoting words from the Gita - 'I am become Death, the Shatterrer of Worlds'. And Tricycle writes a feature on Gita. We have to find out where Buddha is hiding in Tricycle. He hardly exisits in this magazine. It is sold over to Hinduism.

They could easily relate themselves to the knowledge in these texts.

Rohit Jadhav's picture

Einstien on Gandhi

"Mahatma Gandhi's life achievement stands unique in political history. He has invented a completely new and humane means for the liberation war of an oppressed country, and practised it with greatest energy and devotion. The moral influence he had on the conciously thinking human being of the entire civilized world will probably be much more lasting than it seems in our time with its overestimation of brutal violent forces. Because lasting will only be the work of such statesmen who wake up and strengthen the moral power of their people through their example and educational works.
We may all be happy and grateful that destiny gifted us with such an enlightened contemporary, a role model for the generations to come."

"I believe that Gandhi's views were the most enlightened of all the political men in our time.

We should strive to do things in his spirit: not to use violence in fighting for our cause, but by non-participation in anything you believe is evil."

After Gandhi's death, Albert Einstein said of Gandhi: "Generations to come will scarcely believe that such a one as this walked the earth in flesh and blood."

We sure believe that Gandhi did walk on this Earth in flesh and blood but only after making a demon out of him.

PRAVIN KR's picture

The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
- Albert Einstein

Mystic Montage's picture

The so-called "Paradoxical Commandments" below were written by Kent M. Keith in 1968 when he was an undergraduate at Harvard. He wrote them as part of a booklet for student leaders. Interestingly, with some small changes, these words have been attributed (much later) to Mother Teresa. But Kent Keith wrote it first. Here it is:

People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered.
Love them anyway.

If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives.
Do good anyway.

If you are successful, you win false friends and true enemies.
Succeed anyway.

The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow.
Do good anyway.

Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
Be honest and frank anyway.

The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds.
Think big anyway.

People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs.
Fight for a few underdogs anyway.

What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight.
Build anyway.

People really need help but may attack you if you do help them.
Help people anyway.

Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth.
Give the world the best you have anyway.

© 1968, 2001 Kent M. Keith